Kennedy clashes with lawmakers over vaccine policies, CDC firing

Editor’s note: This article has been updated to include additional exchanges between Kennedy and Republican senators.

Health and Human Services Secretary Robert Kennedy Jr. clashed with senators during a Senate hearing over his vaccine policies and the recent firing of the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

During a Senate Finance Committee hearing on 4 September, Kennedy was grilled on several controversial decisions he had made in recent months. Among the issues, Democratic senators criticized his decision to ask former CDC Director Susan Monarez to resign before she was ultimately fired President Donald Trump. Several top CDC officials resigned in protest of the move.

In response, Kennedy attacked the CDC, arguing that the US had the highest per capita COVID-19 deaths under the watch of its leaders. He also said they promoted COVID-19 policies such as mask mandates and school closures that he argued were not scientifically supported.

“Change has its enemies,” said Kennedy. “That's why we need new blood at CDC, that's also why it's imperative that we remove officials with conflicts of interest and catastrophically bad judgment and political agendas.”

Earlier in the day, Monarez published an editorial in the Wall Street Journal, in which she said Kennedy attempted to pressure her to “preapprove” recommendations by the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) after Kennedy fired all its members and replaced them.

“One of the troubling directives from that meeting more than a week ago: I was told to preapprove the recommendations of a vaccine advisory panel newly filled with people who have publicly expressed antivaccine rhetoric,” said Monarez. “That panel’s next meeting is scheduled for Sept. 18-19. It is imperative that the panel’s recommendations aren’t rubber-stamped but instead are rigorously and scientifically reviewed before being accepted or rejected.”

Kennedy, however, said Monarez is lying and denied that he had such a meeting with her.

Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR), ranking member on the Finance Committee, noted that organizations such as the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) have criticized the US Food and Drug Administration’s (FDA) recent decision to approve COVID-19 vaccines only for people over 65, unless they have a high-risk condition. Kennedy, however, said the academy is "gravely conflicted,” and it is financed by major pharmaceutical companies.

Sen. Maggie Hassan (D-NH) asked Kennedy why he has taken measures to limit children's access to the COVID-19 vaccines if he agrees with Trump that they have saved countless lives. Kennedy said the decision wasn’t his but instead was made by the FDA.

Hassan, however, pushed back and said that scientists had tried to brief him on the need to continue allowing the vaccines for children. She also raised concerns that Kennedy has not been transparent about how he has reached his decisions.

“The process for COVID vaccine approval was public, it was live-streamed, and it was out in the open,” said Hassan. “Manufacturers and experts have publicly submitted data analysis, and when the FDA has asked for more, they have submitted more.

“Your own process, on the other hand, has not been transparent,” she added. “You repeatedly choose to ignore data because it doesn't match your preconceived notions and lies.”

"This is crazy talk,” responded Kennedy. “You're making stuff up."

Kennedy insisted the vaccine decision was not made behind closed doors. However, he also argued that the vaccine industry conducted vaccine studies, and they could not provide data that proved they were effective for healthy children.

Sen. Bill Cassidy (R-LA), chair of the Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions (HELP) committee, was also critical of Kennedy during the hearing. While Kennedy and Cassidy agreed that Trump should receive a Nobel prize for Operation Warp Speed, which sped the development of the vaccines, Cassidy pointed out that Kennedy has tried to restrict access to those same vaccines. Kennedy argued that anyone can still access the vaccines off-label, Cassidy noted that insurers and pharmacists may not cover or sell the vaccines due to legal concerns. Kennedy also faced criticism from Senate Majority Whip John Barrasso (R-WY), who said he has “grown deeply concerned” with Kennedy’s moves on vaccines, and Thom Tillis (R-NC), who recalled Kennedy’s pledge not to take vaccines away from people and said there are “several reports that would seem to refute that.”

Kennedy also had a heated exchange with Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) about who could receive COVID-19 boosters.

"If you don't recommend it, then the consequence of that in many states is that you can't walk into a pharmacy and get one,” said Warren. “It means insurance companies don't have to cover the $200 or so cost. As senator Dr. Cassidy said, you are effectively denying people vaccines."

"I'm not going to recommend a product for which there's no clinical data for that indication,” responded Kennedy. “Is that what I should be doing?"

Warren also asked Kennedy if he had told Monarez to resign if she wouldn’t sign off on his changes to childhood vaccinations. Kennedy denied the accusation.

"I told her to resign because I asked her, 'Are you a trustworthy person,' and she said, 'No,'" he claimed.

Cassidy also raised concerns about Kennedy's canceled $500M contracts for mRNA research and noted that many of the people he has nominated to ACIP have served as paid experts for plaintiffs' attorneys suing vaccine makers.

Sen. Michael Bennet (D-CO) echoed concerns about several members whom Kennedy has nominated to the ACIP committee and who hold scientifically controversial views. As an example, he noted that one member, Robert Malone, a biochemist, has said mRNA vaccines cause a form of acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS) and can hurt the brain, heart, immune system, and people’s ability to have children. Another member, Retsef Levi, a management professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), Cassidy noted, has claimed there is evidence that mRNA is causing death, especially among young people. Kennedy said he agrees with Levi’s comments.

Sen. John Barrasso (R-WY) asked Kennedy how he is ensuring Americans are confident in vaccines. Kennedy said only one of the 19 vaccines recommended for children has used an inert placebo during clinical trials. He said he will require any new vaccine to demonstrate safety against an inert placebo before approval. Furthermore, he said HHS will review observational studies of vaccines on the market to determine if they are associated with any chronic diseases.

Finance committee hearing

Kennedy clashes with lawmakers over vaccine policies, CDC firing

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